I just struck a deal on an RME interface ,
Ive been looking out for one a few years now , its fair to say they come with the highest recomendations despite being 20 or so years old
To interconnect with the computer Ive found a few older thunderbolt 2 docks with firewire 800 port ,
The Mac Pro 6,1 has 6 thunderbolt ports(20Gbps) , so more than adequate bandwidth.
A cut down Win10 Pe seems to handle the drivers without fuss .
For those with large desktop computers ,PCI to firewire cards are still readily available at a good price .
Of course with a 20 year old card THD and noise is a little below what a modern unit gives , but you always have the possibillity of adding A/D or DAC via spdif/optical .
The other thing is servicing is fairly well documented , the coupling and PSU caps are through hole , allowing a very much better choice of component ,
there is no fancy OLed screens to worry about going dim on you .
The unit is powered with an external switching 12V supply , but accepts a wide range of voltages ,either AC or DC 8-28V ,it also accepts firewire bus power .
Thunderbolt/firewire audio
Re: Thunderbolt/firewire audio
The Fireface 400 arrived yesterday , near mint condition , just light desktop usage .
The latest versions of TotalMixFX and Digicheck(NG) still support ALL previous RME interfaces , that means if you happen to have the Firewire conectivity even 25 year old units still work perfectly .
The FF400 itself dates back to 2007 ,with the final set of driver updates in 2019 , it stands as a testament to RME's commitment to quality and longevity.
Most other manufacturers pull the plug on any kind of support after only a few years .
I was able to find a couple of Thunderbolt 2 hubs with Firewire ports for around 25-30 Euros second hand , one is OWC the other is Belkin ,
So far Ive only tried the Belkin and it works plug n play to bridge the Mac Pro 6,1 and audio device with WIN10 PE , REW also detected the device drivers,
so I think Reaper will work just fine too ,although I didnt test it out yet .
Ive a buddy running a studio in a nearby town , his setup consists of the RME Fireface 800 for analog outs(in conjunction with TotalMix for cue/HP ) and the Apogee AD-16X for analog input , of course the PC, OS and DAW has changed over time ,but the core audio components have remained the same for close on 20 years , there isnt much in digital audio that stands up over an almost geological time frame but these devices do .
TotalMix is a fairly complex program , with a learning curve ,any info on good tutorials welcome .
The latest versions of TotalMixFX and Digicheck(NG) still support ALL previous RME interfaces , that means if you happen to have the Firewire conectivity even 25 year old units still work perfectly .
The FF400 itself dates back to 2007 ,with the final set of driver updates in 2019 , it stands as a testament to RME's commitment to quality and longevity.
Most other manufacturers pull the plug on any kind of support after only a few years .
I was able to find a couple of Thunderbolt 2 hubs with Firewire ports for around 25-30 Euros second hand , one is OWC the other is Belkin ,
So far Ive only tried the Belkin and it works plug n play to bridge the Mac Pro 6,1 and audio device with WIN10 PE , REW also detected the device drivers,
so I think Reaper will work just fine too ,although I didnt test it out yet .
Ive a buddy running a studio in a nearby town , his setup consists of the RME Fireface 800 for analog outs(in conjunction with TotalMix for cue/HP ) and the Apogee AD-16X for analog input , of course the PC, OS and DAW has changed over time ,but the core audio components have remained the same for close on 20 years , there isnt much in digital audio that stands up over an almost geological time frame but these devices do .
TotalMix is a fairly complex program , with a learning curve ,any info on good tutorials welcome .
Re: Thunderbolt/firewire audio
I found a series of tutorials about TotalMix here ,thanks to Barry johns ,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnsZj4yONtA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnsZj4yONtA
Re: Thunderbolt/firewire audio
Down the page from the link I posted to the TotalMix tutorial , Barry tackles the Avid situation ,
Hits the nail on the right on the head
Hits the nail on the right on the head
Re: Thunderbolt/firewire audio
I had a chance to try out the Fireface and TotalMix ,
The mic/line amps have programable , digitally controled gain , as an audio testing setup thats really useful, compared to standard continiously variable gain controls found on many interfaces .
The unit also has settings in the driver panel to adjust the line outs from -10dbv, +4dbu and +19dbu ,
This basically means the unit can be calibrated ,then programmed to start with predetermined input and output reference levels , from there the gain can be varied in precise ,repeatable steps .
Im able to get a noise reading of -117dbfs ,with both mic inputs combined differntially (vitrtual balanced input in REW) over 20hz-20khz .
192khz SR . That only degrades to -112dbfs over 10hz-100khz .
I found the same noise bump can appear in REW if the sample rate is changed , just like USB devices ,
Setting the device for 192khz via a settings.txt file in REW prevented it happening .
The other nice feature the driver RME driver panel has is it allows you set if the device is detected under WDM , if thats set to 0 the unit remains completely hidden from Windows Audio , which can then be shutdown in Services.msc , the device of course remains avaialable to Asio host software ,
The digitally controlled analog gain makes it a bit fiddly to change settings on the fly , for instance in a live or recording situation , its all done on one encoder with two seven segment led displays . Of course all the front panel settings and much more are available through the driver panel and TotalMix when its attached to the computer .
The mic/line amps have programable , digitally controled gain , as an audio testing setup thats really useful, compared to standard continiously variable gain controls found on many interfaces .
The unit also has settings in the driver panel to adjust the line outs from -10dbv, +4dbu and +19dbu ,
This basically means the unit can be calibrated ,then programmed to start with predetermined input and output reference levels , from there the gain can be varied in precise ,repeatable steps .
Im able to get a noise reading of -117dbfs ,with both mic inputs combined differntially (vitrtual balanced input in REW) over 20hz-20khz .
192khz SR . That only degrades to -112dbfs over 10hz-100khz .
I found the same noise bump can appear in REW if the sample rate is changed , just like USB devices ,
Setting the device for 192khz via a settings.txt file in REW prevented it happening .
The other nice feature the driver RME driver panel has is it allows you set if the device is detected under WDM , if thats set to 0 the unit remains completely hidden from Windows Audio , which can then be shutdown in Services.msc , the device of course remains avaialable to Asio host software ,
The digitally controlled analog gain makes it a bit fiddly to change settings on the fly , for instance in a live or recording situation , its all done on one encoder with two seven segment led displays . Of course all the front panel settings and much more are available through the driver panel and TotalMix when its attached to the computer .
Re: Thunderbolt/firewire audio
I took a chance on buying another RME FF400 for spares/repair , this one powers up ok and registers input signals ,but isnt recognised by the opperating system and drivers .
At first it was taking anything from about 20 seconds to 2 minutes for the host led to show red , meaning not connected
There was also some flickering of other leds on the front panel initially after powerup .
I did get it to connect once or twice briefly , when combined with the other unit on the same firewire bus .
settings in the driver panel were scrambled , and not the proper default settings .
I suspect the firewire PHY chip is damaged , its a TI TSB43AB .
Not so easy to find now but it is common enough on firewire PCI cards , so perhaps I can source one that way .
Most likely this unit wasnt used in a long while , so I expect some settling time is needed for the caps to form up again .
At first it was taking anything from about 20 seconds to 2 minutes for the host led to show red , meaning not connected
There was also some flickering of other leds on the front panel initially after powerup .
I did get it to connect once or twice briefly , when combined with the other unit on the same firewire bus .
settings in the driver panel were scrambled , and not the proper default settings .
I suspect the firewire PHY chip is damaged , its a TI TSB43AB .
Not so easy to find now but it is common enough on firewire PCI cards , so perhaps I can source one that way .
Most likely this unit wasnt used in a long while , so I expect some settling time is needed for the caps to form up again .
Re: Thunderbolt/firewire audio
Ive had the unit powered up for a few days and the host led now shows no connection within a few seconds , like it should .
Its possible the unit is stuck on an older firmware , in that case I need an older OS like XP or Win7 , to be able to run the corresponding driver , to make it connect , then Im able to use the firmware update tool .
Ive contacted the seller to see if he remembers .
Its possible the firmware is still at the factory supplied version, which corresponds with the manufacturing date , mid 2009.
Ive trawled through the RME website and theres definately a few people had the same issue over the years , any help or advice welcome .
Its possible the unit is stuck on an older firmware , in that case I need an older OS like XP or Win7 , to be able to run the corresponding driver , to make it connect , then Im able to use the firmware update tool .
Ive contacted the seller to see if he remembers .
Its possible the firmware is still at the factory supplied version, which corresponds with the manufacturing date , mid 2009.
Ive trawled through the RME website and theres definately a few people had the same issue over the years , any help or advice welcome .
Re: Thunderbolt/firewire audio
I iterated through all the RME 64 bit Firewire driver revisions I could find on WINPE , a restart between each attempt just to ensure registry and driver stack were refreshed , each time powering the device and checking for conectivity ..... no dice 
While I was doing that I tried the working unit with mismatched driver/firmware , its updated to the latest firmware V1.71 and as youd expect , it only played ball with the correct driver revision V3.125 .
I found another post somewhere on the RME site detailing one guys repairs on an FF400 , he needed to replace two reservoir caps either side of the the first switch mode regulator as well as the regulator itself , he also determined the TI TSB43AB was damaged , possibly due to static discharge , and so replaced that too .
While I was doing that I tried the working unit with mismatched driver/firmware , its updated to the latest firmware V1.71 and as youd expect , it only played ball with the correct driver revision V3.125 .
I found another post somewhere on the RME site detailing one guys repairs on an FF400 , he needed to replace two reservoir caps either side of the the first switch mode regulator as well as the regulator itself , he also determined the TI TSB43AB was damaged , possibly due to static discharge , and so replaced that too .
Re: Thunderbolt/firewire audio
The other thing I did while testing was switched from firewire bus power to standard SMPS 12v to linear regulated 12v supply , it made no difference either to the working or non working unit .
Heres a link to the FF400 repair , beware ! the site is unsecured ,
http://vintageaudiorepairs.eu/?p=423
Heres a link to the FF400 repair , beware ! the site is unsecured ,
http://vintageaudiorepairs.eu/?p=423
Re: Thunderbolt/firewire audio
Theres a clue in the led sequence at power up that somethings amiss with the non working unit ,
Typically all leds flash initially including the numeric display , then within a second or two midi out 2 led flashes then the red host led lights momentairily ,then the drivers lock in ,
In the defective unit it takes seconds or minutes for the midi to flash then theres another pause before(no) host red led lights solid .
In an audio interface the rails often come up in a certain sequence/over time , theres obviously a margin depending on the condition of the electrolytic caps involved , if things dont happen within the correct time frame while the unit boots your bolloxed ,
I noticed,
if I kept the unit powered externally until the host led lit , removed external power, plugged in the fire wire cable then switched to bus power within a couple of seconds I got the unit to lock with the drivers and show up in totalmix on a few ocassions .
Theres other anomalies with the working unit , theres a harmonic spur appears in REW FFT, on power up its around 800hz as time goes by this drops in frequency to around 300hz , another spar appears further up the range around 50khz , so maybe that supports the theory these switchmode devices gradually shift down in frequency as they age .
Typically all leds flash initially including the numeric display , then within a second or two midi out 2 led flashes then the red host led lights momentairily ,then the drivers lock in ,
In the defective unit it takes seconds or minutes for the midi to flash then theres another pause before(no) host red led lights solid .
In an audio interface the rails often come up in a certain sequence/over time , theres obviously a margin depending on the condition of the electrolytic caps involved , if things dont happen within the correct time frame while the unit boots your bolloxed ,
I noticed,
if I kept the unit powered externally until the host led lit , removed external power, plugged in the fire wire cable then switched to bus power within a couple of seconds I got the unit to lock with the drivers and show up in totalmix on a few ocassions .
Theres other anomalies with the working unit , theres a harmonic spur appears in REW FFT, on power up its around 800hz as time goes by this drops in frequency to around 300hz , another spar appears further up the range around 50khz , so maybe that supports the theory these switchmode devices gradually shift down in frequency as they age .